Amber Listserv / Fwd: Re: red with green flash

Tue Aug 15 23:12:53 EDT 2006

  Just so this is clear to everyone on the amberlistserv, I had a couple of issues with the email which Kirk sent out.  I responded to him privately with my concerns, and in fact, if one reads the email (which has been attached as a thread by Kirk, not me), I stated that I had no intention of making my issues with him public.

  This has now become a public discussion between at least two members of the list, Joy and Kirk.  I want it to be clear that this was not of my doing.

  Adam Spiegel

kirk stephan <kirkstephan at hotmail.com> wrote:
      I certainly never would "speak for all others" as you say. I just couldn't possibly test all $5 novelty items to find out what they're made from (besides scratching, melting, marring, etc some of the surfaces. I state on my site that they are NOT amber, just interesting 'fantasy' souvenirs, whatever type of resin they're made from. Look at my site and decide if I'm trying to be tricky or not...

  'Invite to my site,of course< http://geocities.com/kirkstephany/tools.htm

---------------------------------
  From: Joy J <ambercollector at yahoo.com>
To: amber at ambericawest.com
Subject: Re: Amber Listserv / red with green flash
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 12:19:30 -0700 (PDT)

Please note:  I am not taking sides here or trying to point fingers, I am simply stating an opinion. 

4. The material around the scorpians and wasps could indeed be plastic as opposed to copal resin but it makes no difference to buyers or myself since they are merely novelty items that are quite cheap. Thanks again.

It is so easy to tell plastic resin from reconstituted copal, there is no reason not to differentiate between the two.  

While it is safe to speak for oneself, I find it shaky ground to speak for all others.  Therefore, it does make a difference and this is the foundation of the whole debate going on about the fake 'amber' from China and other parts of Asia being passed off as amber! 

Bottom line:  If it is plastic based resin, then say so.  If it is reconstituted copal or amber, then say so.  It does matter to some people!

kirk stephan <kirkstephan at hotmail.com> wrote:       Hi Adam, Thanks for your input.
  1. As I DO say on my site: the jade heads ARE reproductions though they fooled me at first when I saw them through a window. They DEFINITELY are genuine jade (jadeite variety, one of two 'species' and the more rare, the other being nephrite); I'm a gemologist and lapidary of 30 some years (triple your money back if you can show otherwise!)
  2. The 'hatchas' are definitely genuine artifacts, obtained from Mayan indian farmers who dug them up in the course of their cultivating.
  3.Many people have that same idea about the age of Chiapas amber- I suggest you go to the Mayan Amber museum site (museum is located in San Cristobal de las Casas) and verify thet the true experts in the field say that it's 65 million.
  4. The material around the scorpians and wasps could indeed be plastic as opposed to copal resin but it makes no difference to buyers or myself since they are merely novelty items that are quite cheap. Thanks again.

'Invite to my site,of course< http://geocities.com/kirkstephany/tools.htm

---------------------------------
  From: ADAM SPIEGEL <spiegela at prodigy.net>
To: kirk stephan <kirkstephan at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Amber Listserv / red with green flash
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 13:21:49 -0700 (PDT)

   Kirk,

  I like the photos on your website, I like your lapidary work, but I feel I need to comment on a couple of things.  

  Just so you know, the little green Maya "jade" heads are definitely reproductions, I saw dozens for sale a few months ago in San Cristobal in the market.  They are also not jade, mostly greenstone.  It is possible that a couple of them might be real jade, but that would be rare.  I also have been a collector of artifacts for many years, I know fakes when I see them.  The other pieces, the small axes, might be real, I would have to see them in person or see real good photos and several closeups.

  Second, your web page states that the Chiapas amber is 65 million years old, when it is really no more than 30 million years old.  

  Third, I dont think the insects and scorpions the Indians sell are copal, I think they are plastic, I have a few and they are definitely plastic.  Maybe you have a different source, then I might be wrong on this point.

  I am telling you all this for your own benefit.  I have not posted these comments to the listserv because I dont want to anger you.  I have no intention of posting them to the listserv.  My comments are only for your information.

  Adam Spiegel

kirk stephan <kirkstephan at hotmail.com> wrote:
      Here're two pieces of my favorite color of amber from Chiapas, ruby red with green 'flash'. I've just finished polishing them down to a high luster. 'Like em? They're 17.8 and 33.3 grams respectively, kirk

   more on my site=   http://geocities.com/kirkstephany/tools.htm

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