Amber Listserv / blue

Thu May 8 16:03:23 EDT 2008

If only you guys read what I write and comment on it, not just on your own
convictions.

No, Mr. Weitschat would not mind reading what I wrote, I don't think. I did
not call him a "guru", I simply quoted his presentation from 2007.
In it, Mr. Weitschat quotes the most recent geological studies carried out
in the DR and concludes in his own words: "Following these results, dating
Dominican amber back to 40 million years is no longer worth discussing.".

Hermann is basing his convictions on older papers - some more than a decade
old. A lot has been done in the mean time by scientists and accepting these
results requires changed opinions.

John

On 5/8/08, TOM BUCKLEY <tbuck22 at optonline.net> wrote:
>
>  Very well said Hermann.
>
> Tom
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Info_BlueAmber <info at blueamber.com>
> *To:* JOHN FUDALA <ambersafari at gmail.com>
> *Cc:* TOM BUCKLEY <tbuck22 at optonline.net> ; The Edgars <theedgars at shaw.ca>;
> amber at ambericawest.com ; Weitschat. Wolfgang<fg6a106 at geowiss.uni-hamburg.de>
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 08, 2008 9:58 AM
> *Subject:* Re: Amber Listserv / blue
>
> Here we go again...   (now it's my time to roll eyes...in amusement)
>
> But, I knew that my last comment about the age would stir up some feelings.
>
>
> John, let's be honest, some Amber is considered to be up to 345,000,000
> years old (Northumberland USA). Compared with this, both, Dominican and
> Baltic amber are "babies" and have no reason to be dickering over a few
> million years here and there. But this information about 18 mio years needs
> some clarification.
>
> Now, Weitschat is right up to a certain degree. But there is amber from
> different time periods in the Dominican Republic. There is even Copal as you
> make us aware. Therefore, I have to be very careful when we buy. The younger
> amber from the South is too soft. (see Dominican Amber mines:
> http://ambarazul.com/wordpress/2006/09/ )The youngest times suggested are
> 15-20 million years, based on foraminifera fossils, while the oldest
> proposed are 30-45 million years, based on coccolith fossils.
>
> Who is the guru?
> Wolfgang Weitschat? 15 - 20 Mio as you say, but also 25 mio
> http://www.g-o.de/dossier-detail-176-6.html
> Garry Platt? http://www.gplatt.demon.co.uk/dominica.htm 30-40 million
> years old
> Guenther Bechly?
> http://www.bernstein.naturkundemuseum-bw.de/odonata/amber.htm up to 45 mio
> George Poinar?: The Amber Forest: A Reconstruction of a Vanished World:
> http://press.princeton.edu/chapters/s6548.html up to 45 million
> anyone else? lecture at the University of Cologne:
> http://www.fortunecity.com/campus/geography/243/ambdepos.html "They both
> are of tertiary age, up to 40 mio"
> (Some scientist even change their opinion the older they get themselves.)
>
> Surely, there are many different theories and everyone has his favorite. See:
> Blue Amber Blog
> We Dig Mother Earth At Any Age http://ambarazul.com/wordpress/2006/09/ and
>
> Dating A Fossil: Always Flatter — You don't look a day over 20 million!
> http://ambarazul.com/wordpress/2005/11/page/8/
>
> There is no doubt, natural Amber from the Baltic countries was and is
> beautiful and extraordinary, full of folklore and history. It still has the
> fame of the mystic, sacred material of ancient times that carries on. There
> definitely are still many craftsmen in Baltic countries who keep up this
> old, honorable tradition.  But, Alas!, natural Baltic amber in it's original
> form is not the rule today on a world market, where in these modern times
> everything has become a matter of price, competition and publicity. As a
> result, what you often find these days is an industrialized product for the
> masses and most people are not aware of what they are really buying. Many
> times even the seller, the jeweler does not have enough knowledge of the
> product.
>
> The Amber industry in some of the Baltic countries is heavy industry,
> feeding many thousands of people and therefore the marketing has to be very
> powerful. So powerful that they are able to influence public opinion.  "We
> are better, we are older, we have succinic acid (does it matter?
> http://www.natmus.dk/cons/reports/2002/amber/amber.pdf  ) etc. The others
> are not even worth to be called "amber" (from "ambar gris" = Arabic for
> Sperm whale puke)."
>
> This is what I am against. But I am the underdog, I know. So, my dear Polish
> friends, please give us some air and some credit! Let us live, too. You are
> already making enough money. No need to put us or the Mexicans down
> with slogans like "Only Baltic amber is REAL amber." (Want some references
> where they state this?)
>
> And do to your beautiful "real" amber whatever you please to do to keep
> the ignorant world market happy.
>
> Hermann
>
> PS: Wolfgang, hoffe Du hast eine Chance das zu lesen. Eigentlich muessten
> Dir die Ohren klingeln.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: JOHN FUDALA
> To: Info_BlueAmber
> Cc: TOM BUCKLEY ; The Edgars ; amber at ambericawest.com
> Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 11:46 PM
> Subject: Re: Amber Listserv / blue
>
>
> Hi Hermann;)))
>
> I hope you did not take any offense, because none was intended.
> It is just that repeating certain slogans that are negative and very
> nonspecific is not good, sort of a negative campaign- you of all people do
> not need it in my opinion. Blue Dominican amber is gorgeous and unique, all
> natural fossil resin that deserves all the attention it gets.
>
> You mention about Dominican amber being 40* million years old.
> The article written by MALCOLM W. BROWNE mentions a lot of names and ages-
> very easy to get lost in thought train about what is it talking about, in
> any given part of it. Clearly not his area of expertise.
> Last year at Amberif's science seminar dr Weitschat gave a lecture about
> Dominican amber in which he presented exhausting geological evidence of the
> deposits being 18 million years old. I am rather surprised you are not aware
> of it.
>
> John
>
>
> On 5/7/08, Info_BlueAmber <info at blueamber.com> wrote:
> Dear John (some letters start like this....;))
>
> You are right about the fake amber and plastic. And I try to help making
> the public aware of this. Just got an answer from a Chinese company to a
> message I wrote them. See below a part of the correspondence after I had
> asked them whether they would give me a certificate for the amber they
> offer. ;)
>
> In behalf of my little niche: There are only about 150 - 200 kilos of good
> blue amber per year available. Nothing to brag about, you're right. Nothing
> to make me or anyone rich either. But, we are not looking for quantity. Just
> trying to keep up quality and defending 100 % natural amber the way it comes
> from the mine. Maybe I am a puritan. But maybe my case was lost before it
> even started, when in the first century they boiled Baltic amber "in the fat
> of a suckling pig". ( http://www.amberwholesale.com/colors.html ) Not much
> else that I can say in my defense. Therefore, no offense given and none
> taken. Just a different viewpoint.
>
> And copal? Not long ago, I received inquiries from Poland (!) for copal,
> Colombian or from elsewhere. Large quantities, they say... wonder what
> they're up to....'nuff said.
>
> But, if you know of someone who would be interested in purchasing all the
> other colors we have here, good old amber from trusted mines (up to 40 mio
> years old, just like Baltic amber *) hey, let me know. Thanks in advance.
> Here we say: "Firemen in action don't step on eachother's hoses."
>
> kind regards,
> Hermann
>
> *compare http://www.gplatt.demon.co.uk/baltic.htm and
> http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?sec=health&res=9E0CE2DD123BF936A1575AC0A964958260)
>
> ..................................
>
>
> Dear Mr. Hermann,
>
> Thank you for your email. Amber is all synthetic.We have largest catalog of
> Jewlery in the world. Prices are on our websites,We have 3 websites and over
> 5000's of products online.You can mail us your order from our websites....
>
> ................................
>
>
> Dear Sir
>
> Thank you for your frank and honest explanation. I was just wondering
> because of the price.
>
> For your understanding: There is no synthetic amber. There might be a
> synthetic resin, but no synthetic amber. Maybe in Chinese. To check the
> meaning of the English word "amber" maybe you want to consult
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amber
>
> Please allow me a suggestion: don't call it amber. It will confound the
> customer and harm your and Chinese credibility on the market. At least, make
> sure that customers are aware of the fact that it is not amber but synthetic
> resin, resembling amber. Also, your customers might be liable for a legal
> demand or get sued, if they sell it as "amber".
>
> Thank you for taking this into consideration for your and your customer's
> protection.
>
> Regards,
> Hermann K. Dittrich
> AmbarAzul, LLC
> http://www.blueamber.com
>
>
> Answer:
>
> May 06 2008 19:02:39 -0700
>
>
> THANK YOU WE ALWAYS TELLS OUR CUSTOMERS ( WHILE GENERATING THE ORDER) THIS
> THING THAT IT IS SYNTHETIC AMBER THAT'S IS I THINK SUFFICENT FOR THEM TO
> UNDERSTAND AND THEY DO UNDERSTAND.
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: JOHN FUDALA
> To: Info_BlueAmber
> Cc: TOM BUCKLEY ; The Edgars ; amber at ambericawest.com
> Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 9:11 PM
> Subject: Re: Amber Listserv / blue
>
>
> Here we go again... <roll eyes>
> It is easy to say things that make you seem special. But it is not hard to
> be special when you are in a specialty niche market. How much blue amber do
> you sell in a year?
> One kilo? Ten kilo? Twenty? Even if it is hundreds of kilos it is peanuts
> with the volume of Baltic amber used in jewellery, yet you have to buy lots
> of mixed quality rough sometimes.
> If Poland alone uses over 200 tonnes of Baltic amber per year- don't you
> think they are, at least sometimes, forced to buy rough of mixed quality?
> Hats off to people who know how to use this stuff and make of it what the
> market demands.
> Yes, what the marked demands. There are buyers who will pay for natural
> beauties, and there are buyers who ask for spangles and mixed colors. It
> would be silly not to offer what sells.
> As for fakes and forgeries- that is a whole another subject. Than again,
> copal is offered all over Dominican Republic and buyers have to be careful
> too.
> There is no conspiracy to sell mediocre quality stuff, the Amber
> Association and World Council are not creating sweet sounding cover-up words
> for it. This is huge business where fortunes are made. What these
> organizations are trying to do is to somehow tame and organize this mess so
> consumers will be sure what they are buying. And it is not easy in a World
> where every one and their cousins are trying to sell "amber" and "amber"
> products.
> What is "amber" in this global World? Should anything made with "amber" be
> allowed in the market?
> Thirty or forty years ago amber meant amber- it came from Europe. Amber
> jewellery was nice and good for you to wear. Amber tinctures or medicines
> contained amber. The stuff from Russia or Poland that was used for centuries
> or thousands of years.
> Today?
> Today the term "amber" has lost its meaning. Anybody trying to sell plastic
> or copal calls it amber.
> Any other fossil resin gets called "amber" too. While with jewellery one
> might just loose some money, with medicinal or beauty products the risks are
> higher.
> Like you said, it is not easy to please everyone. Clients burned once, may
> never come back. It's a big task that these two organisations have on their
> agenda. Very important one.
>
>
> On 5/7/08, Info_BlueAmber <info at blueamber.com> wrote:
> Thanks, Tom. But it isn't easy.
>
> Many times, I just have to swallow some of the lower quality I have to buy
> to get the good stones. And since we do not do any "enhancing" (what they
> elegantly) call it, I have some buckets of lower quality I have to sell for
> less in order not to loose my good name in the blue amber business.
>
> Hermann
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: TOM BUCKLEY
> To: Info_BlueAmber ; The Edgars ; amber at ambericawest.com
> Cc: amber group
> Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 6:38 PM
> Subject: Re: Amber Listserv / blue
>
>
> Hermann,
>
>     You should be very proud of those comments. In today's business world I
> fear that you are one of the exceptions. Well done !
>
> Tom
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Info_BlueAmber
> To: TOM BUCKLEY ; The Edgars ; amber at ambericawest.com
> Cc: amber group
> Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 1:36 PM
> Subject: Re: Amber Listserv / blue
>
>
> Of course, Tom, to keep everybody happy is almost impossible. We all know
> that.
>
> But we do our best to merrit our customers' sincere commendations. And we
> seem to be succeeding.
>
> Please read below examples of spontaneous reactions.
>
>  Hi,
> the packet arrived today in the morning. What can I say? Simply
> beautiful!!! A lot better than the photos!!! I'm very happy.
>
> Thanks a lot for all your help and all your courtesy,
> A., Italy
>
>  Hello, I have received the stone and I must say that the picture did not
> make justice to it.
> It is superb! I am fully satisfied.
> Best Wishes
> R. G. Italy
>
>
> Dear H.
> Just got home ... it was sitting a the door and have just "strung" them
> together to see what they look like The colour is superb - so different from
> the Baltic Amber that I have. I didn't mention that I'm a bit of an amber
> fan with lots of pieces in various colours. I can make it into a very nice
> bracelet - but it will need "padding out" with a couple of gold beads. I
> don't suppose you would consider another order? As I said I can make do with
> these ones, but some more would be even better
> With many, many thanks
> J.D. Australia
>
>  Dear H.
> I have received the parcel yesterday and what can I say as usual it's
> beautiful.
> When you know some one very far from you and there is a strong trust
> between you this means friendship, I'm really like to deal with you because
> you are honest, nice , clear , advisable and have very good product (
> Amber). So it's normal to continue business with you till to date which have
> been started from 2005. 2 years of trust 2 years of satisfaction 2 years of
> friendship 2 years of good business 2 years of having the most great
> specimen in blue amber and other colors.
> We have to enjoy life and the beautiful gifts from the creator (God) like
> health, brain and amber :).
> Thank you H. for every thing.
> H.S.A Qatar
>
>
> and so on....
>
>
> Check out our complete customer feedback on that:
> http://www.ambarazul.com/customers_comments.php
>
> Hermann
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: TOM BUCKLEY
> To: The Edgars ; amber at ambericawest.com
> Cc: amber group
> Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 8:37 AM
> Subject: Re: Amber Listserv / blue
>
>
> As I'm sure you'll agree.....It's difficult to always get the blue color to
> appear rich and vibrant. I'd be willing to bet that many people who buy blue
> amber from a photograph, and really don't understand where the color comes
> from, are disappointed when the piece arrives in the mail.
>
> Tom
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: The Edgars
> To: amber at ambericawest.com
> Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 8:10 AM
> Subject: Amber Listserv / blue
>
>
> hey tom
> I would agree if you cut blues on the right angle to the matrix they can
> work out good
> here is a example
> or if you want them in jewelry you could always mount them on black
> w
>
>
>
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>
>
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